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Re: [Xen-users] gaming on multiple OS of the same machine?



More specifically the "first time you initialize the GPU".  It's not any of the operating systems, it is the card itself not getting reset.  It appears to only be a Windows problem, because nobody has reported this issue when running say Ubuntu with a passed GPU.

So if you have a bunch of HVM's, your Windows can be given ID 100 and still work, provided it is the first time you have used the GPU (hence first boot of Windows).

I am glad I could help, and if you have some extra storage space I recommend using "dd" and a second LV partition to copy a working backup of Windows post-install before experimenting.  It can save you some time/effort.

~Casey

On Sat, May 12, 2012 at 2:28 PM, Andrew Bobulsky <rulerof@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Casey,

Wow:

> B)  When you install your ATI drivers, you need to do so on first boot so
> the card is fresh.  If you reboot Windows and not the whole machine before
> trying to install the ATI drivers, the card hasn't been "reset" and either
> the installation will BSOD or if you are successful the drivers are almost
> certainly bugged and you will have problems in the future.  My solution,
> reboot Xen before installing ATI drivers.  OR!  Use the USB Safe Device
> removal and then install them.
>
> To fix your BSOD you may have to safe mode reboot, uninstall the ATI
> drivers, reboot the entire computer (Xen), and then try again.

My first instinct on reading that was to literally facepalm myself.
Thank heavens I wear glasses.  :D

So Basically (or perhaps, "in essence") the drivers need to be
installed when the ID of the DomU is 1.  Fresh boot of Xen, first
post-Xen boot of the DomU with the device attached.  Gonna try that
now :)

I DO recall the FLR thing you mentioned.  Haven't run into that yet
because I haven't run into a successful install of the drivers :D

Thank you so much.  I most certainly would have screwed it up again I
think!  I'm on round 3 of Windows installation.  GPLPV is installed,
so let's see how this goes...

Cheers,
Andrew Bobulsky

On Sat, May 12, 2012 at 2:19 PM, Casey DeLorme <cdelorme@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Andrew,
>
> I hate that error with a passion, but the good news is I may have figured
> out exactly what causes it thanks to hundreds of encounters and some insight
> from Tobias Geiger's posts on VGA Performance Degradation.
>
> First, it isn't the GPLPV drivers, it's your ATI card/drivers.
>
> You may have noticed that the first boot of your system your ATI card
> performs optimally in Windows, well when you reboot windows and not the
> whole Xen system, the GPU does not get reset.
>
> It has been speculated that this is an FLR bug or perhaps more specifically
> a Windows FLR bug.
>
> The solution, at boot time go to the USB Safe Ejection option, and eject the
> card.  Your screen goes black for 1-3 seconds and it automatically
> reinstalls.  This is essentially a forced FLR, and will fix the performance
> issues... at least until you reboot windows again.
>
>
>
> My Solution(s) to Atikmpag.sys errors:
>
> I encountered this bug in two very specific instances.
>
> A)  If I was using a buggy device, in my case my BlueTooth adapter was dying
> and I didn't realize it until over a week of failed testing.  The buggy
> BlueTooth device was causing ATI's drivers to freak, how they are related is
> beyond me.  In conclusion, try unplugging any extra devices when testing.
>
> B)  When you install your ATI drivers, you need to do so on first boot so
> the card is fresh.  If you reboot Windows and not the whole machine before
> trying to install the ATI drivers, the card hasn't been "reset" and either
> the installation will BSOD or if you are successful the drivers are almost
> certainly bugged and you will have problems in the future.  My solution,
> reboot Xen before installing ATI drivers.  OR!  Use the USB Safe Device
> removal and then install them.
>
>
> To fix your BSOD you may have to safe mode reboot, uninstall the ATI
> drivers, reboot the entire computer (Xen), and then try again.
>
>
> Also, if you install the Windows Update ATI drivers, you're essentially
> screwed since it will automatically reinstall them every boot, which means
> before you can eject the device to force FLR.  The only workaround I have
> found for this is to reinstall Windows.  If anyone knows how to tell Windows
> to "really" delete an installed driver that would be fabulous, but just the
> checkbox on device uninstall doesn't do it when you install the Windows
> Update driver.
>
> Hope that helps with a few things, let me know if I wasn't clear (It's a
> confusing topic to begin with).
>
> ~Casey
>
> On Sat, May 12, 2012 at 2:10 PM, chris <tknchris@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>> kpartx being one of them! awesome tool for lvm backed domU's
>>
>>
>> On Sat, May 12, 2012 at 1:48 PM, Casey DeLorme <cdelorme@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Andrew,
>>>
>>> You mean the Windows DomU configuration, right?  I put it up on pastebin
>>> here along with a couple other configuration files:
>>> http://pastebin.com/9E1g1BHf
>>>
>>> I'm just using normal LV partitions and passing them to an HVM, there is
>>> no special trick so any LVM guide should put you on the right track.
>>>
>>> I named my SSD VG "xen" so my drives are all found at /dev/xen/lvname.
>>>
>>> **********
>>>
>>> The only convoluted part is my Dom0 installation, since I used EFI boot
>>> and an LV to store root (/), so I have two 256MB partitions, one FAT32 for
>>> EFI, one Ext4 for boot (/boot) and then the rest of the disk to LVM.  I did
>>> the LVM setup right in the installation, added the SSD partition (PV) to a
>>> Volume Group (VG) then threw on a few partitions.
>>>
>>> I created a linux root partition of 8GB, a home partition of 20GB, and a
>>> swap partition of 2GB.  I mapped those in the configuration, then I went on
>>> ahead and made a 140GB partition for windows, and two 4GB partitions for
>>> PFSense and NGinx.
>>>
>>> Once the system is installed, the standard LVM tools can be used,
>>> lvcreate, lvresize, lvremove, lv/vg/pvdisplay commands, etc...
>>>
>>> My Disk IO is not optimal, which might be because I run four systems off
>>> the same drive at the same time, so if you intend to use many systems you
>>> may want to split the drives onto multiple physical disks.  However, I have
>>> reason to believe my IO problems are a Xen bug, I just haven't had time to
>>> test/prove it.
>>>
>>> **********
>>>
>>> When you pass a LV to an HVM it treats it like a physical disk, and it
>>> will create a partition table, MBR code, and partitions inside the LV
>>> (partitions within partitions).
>>>
>>> When I get some free time I want to write up a pretty verbose guide on
>>> LVM specifically for Xen, there are plenty of things I've learned about
>>> accessing the partitions too.
>>>
>>> Some things I learned recently with Xen, IDE drives (hdX) only allow four
>>> passed devices, so if you have more than 3 storage partitions you will want
>>> to use SCSI (sdX) for them, but SCSI drives are not bootable.  Hence my
>>> configuration has "hda" for the boot drive (lv partition), and sdX for all
>>> storage drives (lv partitons) (X = alphabetical increment, a, b, c, d, etc).
>>>
>>> **********
>>>
>>> Hope that helps a bit, let me know if you have any other questions or if
>>> that didn't answer them correct.
>>>
>>> ~Casey
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, May 12, 2012 at 1:10 PM, Andrew Bobulsky <rulerof@xxxxxxxxx>
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hello Casey,
>>>>
>>>> Quick question!
>>>>
>>>> What's the config file entry for the LVM-type setup you have going on
>>>> for the guest disk look like?  Might you be able to point me to a
>>>> guide that'll show me how to set up a disk like that?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks!
>>>>
>>>> -Andrew Bobulsky
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, May 11, 2012 at 6:51 PM, Casey DeLorme <cdelorme@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> > Hello Peter,
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > Question #1: Performance
>>>> >
>>>> > With x86 Virtualization hardware such as CPU's and Memory are mapped
>>>> > not
>>>> > layered, there should be almost no difference in speeds from running
>>>> > natively.
>>>> >
>>>> > I am running Windows 7 HVM with an ATI Radeon 6870.  My system has
>>>> > 12GB of
>>>> > RAM, and a Core i7 2600.  I gave Windows 4 vcores and 6GB of memory,
>>>> > Windows
>>>> > Experience index gives me 7.5 for CPU and 7.6 for RAM.  With VGA
>>>> > Passthrough
>>>> > I have 7.8 for both graphics scores.  I am running all my systems on
>>>> > LVM
>>>> > partitions on an OCZ Vertex 3 Drive, without PV Drivers windows scored
>>>> > 6.2
>>>> > for HDD speeds, with PV drivers it jumped to 7.8.
>>>> >
>>>> > Scores aside, performance with CPU/RAM is excellent, I am hoping to
>>>> > create a
>>>> > demo video of my system when I get some time (busy with college).
>>>> >
>>>> > My biggest concern right now is Disk IO ranges from excellent to
>>>> > abysmal,
>>>> > but I have a feeling the displayed values and actual speeds might be
>>>> > different.  I'll put putting together an extensive test with this
>>>> > later, but
>>>> > let's just say IO speeds vary (even with PV drivers).  The Disk IO
>>>> > does not
>>>> > appear to have any affect on games from my experience, so it may only
>>>> > be
>>>> > write speeds.  I have not run any disk benchmarks.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > Question #2: GPU Assignment
>>>> >
>>>> > I have no idea how Dual GPU cards work, so I can't really answer this
>>>> > question.
>>>> >
>>>> > I can advise you to be on the lookout for motherboards with NF200
>>>> > chipsets
>>>> > or strange PCI Switches, I bought an ASRock Extreme7 Gen3, great
>>>> > bought but
>>>> > NF200 is completely incompatible with VT-d, ended up with only one
>>>> > PCIe slot
>>>> > to pass.  I can recommend the ASRock Extreme4 Gen3, got it right now,
>>>> > if I
>>>> > had enough money to buy a bigger PSU and a second GPU I would be doing
>>>> > what
>>>> > you are planning to.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > Question #3:  Configuration
>>>> >
>>>> > Two approaches to device connection, USB Passthrough and PCI
>>>> > Passthrough.  I
>>>> > haven't tried USB Passthrough, but I have a feeling it wouldn't work
>>>> > with
>>>> > complex devices that require OS drives, such as BlueTooth receivers or
>>>> > an
>>>> > XBox 360 Wireless adapter.
>>>> >
>>>> > I took the second approach of passing the USB Controller, but this
>>>> > will vary
>>>> > by hardware.  The ASRock Extreme4 Gen3 has four USB PCI Controllers, I
>>>> > don't
>>>> > have any idea how you would check this stuff from their manuals, I
>>>> > found out
>>>> > when I ran "lspci" from Linux Dom0.
>>>> >
>>>> > I had no luck with USB 3.0, many devices weren't functional when
>>>> > connected
>>>> > to it, so I left my four USB 3.0 ports to my Dom0, and passed all my
>>>> > USB 2.0
>>>> > ports.
>>>> >
>>>> > Again hardware specific, one of the bus had 4 ports, the other had
>>>> > only two,
>>>> > I bought a 4 port USB PCI plate and attached the additional USB pins
>>>> > from
>>>> > the board to turn the 2-port into a 6-port controller.
>>>> >
>>>> > I use a ton of USB devices on my Windows system, Disk IO blows, but
>>>> > everything else functions great.  With PCI Passed USB I am able to use
>>>> > an
>>>> > XBox 360 Wireless Adapter, 2 Wireless USB Keyboards in different areas
>>>> > of
>>>> > the room, a Hauppauge HD PVR, A logitech C910 HD Webcam, and a
>>>> > Logitech
>>>> > Wireless Mouse.  I had BlueTooth but I got rid of it, the device
>>>> > itself went
>>>> > bad and was causing my system to BlueScreen.
>>>> >
>>>> > When I tested USB 3.0, I got no video from my Happauge HD PVR or my
>>>> > Logitech
>>>> > C910 webcam, and various devices when connected failed to function
>>>> > right.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > Question #4:  Other?
>>>> >
>>>> > I am 100% certain you could get a system running 2 Windows 7 HVM's up
>>>> > for
>>>> > gaming, but you may need to daisy chain some USB devices if you want
>>>> > more
>>>> > than just a keyboard and mouse for each.
>>>> >
>>>> > Also, if you are not confident in your ability to work with *nix, I
>>>> > wouldn't
>>>> > advise it.  I had spent two years tinkering with Web Servers in
>>>> > Debian, so I
>>>> > thought I would have an easy time of things.
>>>> >
>>>> > I tried it on a week off, ended up taking me 2 months to complete my
>>>> > setup.
>>>> >  The results are spectacular, but be prepared to spend many hours
>>>> > debugging
>>>> > unless you find a really good guide.
>>>> >
>>>> > I would recommend going for a Two Windows on One Rig, and duplicate
>>>> > that rig
>>>> > for a second machine, and I recommend that for two reasons.  If you
>>>> > are
>>>> > successful with the first machine, you can easily copy the process.
>>>> >  This
>>>> > will save you hours of attempting to get a whole four Gaming machines
>>>> > working on one system.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > As stated, I only run one gaming machine, but I do have two other
>>>> > HVM's
>>>> > running, one manages my households network and the other is a private
>>>> > web/file server.  So, performance wise Xen can do a lot.
>>>> >
>>>> > Best of luck,
>>>> >
>>>> > ~Casey
>>>> >
>>>> > On Fri, May 11, 2012 at 6:17 PM, Peter Vandendriessche
>>>> > <peter.vandendriessche@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Hi,
>>>> >>
>>>> >> I am new to Xen and I was wondering if the following construction
>>>> >> would be
>>>> >> feasible with the current Xen.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> I would like to put 2/3/4 new computers in my house, mainly for
>>>> >> gaming.
>>>> >> Instead of buying 2/3/4 different computers, I was thinking of
>>>> >> building one
>>>> >> computer with a 4/6/8-core CPU, 2/3/4 GPUs, 2/3/4 small SSDs, and
>>>> >> attach
>>>> >> 2/3/4 monitors to it, 2/3/4 keyboards and 2/3/4 mouses, and run VGA
>>>> >> passthrough. This would save me money on hardware, and it would also
>>>> >> save
>>>> >> quite some space on the desk where I wanted to put them.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> If this is possible, I have a few additional questions about this:
>>>> >>
>>>> >> 1) Would the speed on each virtual machine be effectively that of a
>>>> >> 2-core
>>>> >> CPU with 1 GPU? What about memory speed/latency?
>>>> >> 2) Is it possible to split dual GPUs, e.g. drive 4 OSes with 2x
>>>> >> Radeon HD
>>>> >> 6990 (=4 GPUs in 2 PCI-e slots)?
>>>> >> 3) How should one configure the machine such that each OS receives
>>>> >> only
>>>> >> the input from its own keyboard/mouse?
>>>> >> 4) Any other problems or concerns that you can think of?
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Thanks in advance,
>>>> >> Peter
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>>> >> Xen-users mailing list
>>>> >> Xen-users@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> >> http://lists.xen.org/xen-users
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>> > Xen-users mailing list
>>>> > Xen-users@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> > http://lists.xen.org/xen-users
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Xen-users mailing list
>>> Xen-users@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> http://lists.xen.org/xen-users
>>
>>
>

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