Re: [Xen-users] gaming on multiple OS of the same machine?

[Andrew Bobulsky <rulerof@xxxxxxxxx>]

Casey,

Wow:

> B)  When you install your ATI drivers, you need to do so on first boot so
> the card is fresh.  If you reboot Windows and not the whole machine before
> trying to install the ATI drivers, the card hasn't been "reset" and either
> the installation will BSOD or if you are successful the drivers are almost
> certainly bugged and you will have problems in the future.  My solution,
> reboot Xen before installing ATI drivers.  OR!  Use the USB Safe Device
> removal and then install them.
>
> To fix your BSOD you may have to safe mode reboot, uninstall the ATI
> drivers, reboot the entire computer (Xen), and then try again.

My first instinct on reading that was to literally facepalm myself.
Thank heavens I wear glasses.  :D

So Basically (or perhaps, "in essence") the drivers need to be
installed when the ID of the DomU is 1.  Fresh boot of Xen, first
post-Xen boot of the DomU with the device attached.  Gonna try that
now :)

I DO recall the FLR thing you mentioned.  Haven't run into that yet
because I haven't run into a successful install of the drivers :D

Thank you so much.  I most certainly would have screwed it up again I
think!  I'm on round 3 of Windows installation.  GPLPV is installed,
so let's see how this goes...

Cheers,
Andrew Bobulsky

On Sat, May 12, 2012 at 2:19 PM, Casey DeLorme <cdelorme@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Andrew,
>
> I hate that error with a passion, but the good news is I may have figured
> out exactly what causes it thanks to hundreds of encounters and some insight
> from Tobias Geiger's posts on VGA Performance Degradation.
>
> First, it isn't the GPLPV drivers, it's your ATI card/drivers.
>
> You may have noticed that the first boot of your system your ATI card
> performs optimally in Windows, well when you reboot windows and not the
> whole Xen system, the GPU does not get reset.
>
> It has been speculated that this is an FLR bug or perhaps more specifically
> a Windows FLR bug.
>
> The solution, at boot time go to the USB Safe Ejection option, and eject the
> card.  Your screen goes black for 1-3 seconds and it automatically
> reinstalls.  This is essentially a forced FLR, and will fix the performance
> issues... at least until you reboot windows again.
>
>
>
> My Solution(s) to Atikmpag.sys errors:
>
> I encountered this bug in two very specific instances.
>
> A)  If I was using a buggy device, in my case my BlueTooth adapter was dying
> and I didn't realize it until over a week of failed testing.  The buggy
> BlueTooth device was causing ATI's drivers to freak, how they are related is
> beyond me.  In conclusion, try unplugging any extra devices when testing.
>
> B)  When you install your ATI drivers, you need to do so on first boot so
> the card is fresh.  If you reboot Windows and not the whole machine before
> trying to install the ATI drivers, the card hasn't been "reset" and either
> the installation will BSOD or if you are successful the drivers are almost
> certainly bugged and you will have problems in the future.  My solution,
> reboot Xen before installing ATI drivers.  OR!  Use the USB Safe Device
> removal and then install them.
>
>
> To fix your BSOD you may have to safe mode reboot, uninstall the ATI
> drivers, reboot the entire computer (Xen), and then try again.
>
>
> Also, if you install the Windows Update ATI drivers, you're essentially
> screwed since it will automatically reinstall them every boot, which means
> before you can eject the device to force FLR.  The only workaround I have
> found for this is to reinstall Windows.  If anyone knows how to tell Windows
> to "really" delete an installed driver that would be fabulous, but just the
> checkbox on device uninstall doesn't do it when you install the Windows
> Update driver.
>
> Hope that helps with a few things, let me know if I wasn't clear (It's a
> confusing topic to begin with).
>
> ~Casey
>
> On Sat, May 12, 2012 at 2:10 PM, chris <tknchris@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>> kpartx being one of them! awesome tool for lvm backed domU's
>>
>>
>> On Sat, May 12, 2012 at 1:48 PM, Casey DeLorme <cdelorme@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Andrew,
>>>
>>> You mean the Windows DomU configuration, right?  I put it up on pastebin
>>> here along with a couple other configuration files:
>>> http://pastebin.com/9E1g1BHf
>>>
>>> I'm just using normal LV partitions and passing them to an HVM, there is
>>> no special trick so any LVM guide should put you on the right track.
>>>
>>> I named my SSD VG "xen" so my drives are all found at /dev/xen/lvname.
>>>
>>> **********
>>>
>>> The only convoluted part is my Dom0 installation, since I used EFI boot
>>> and an LV to store root (/), so I have two 256MB partitions, one FAT32 for
>>> EFI, one Ext4 for boot (/boot) and then the rest of the disk to LVM.  I did
>>> the LVM setup right in the installation, added the SSD partition (PV) to a
>>> Volume Group (VG) then threw on a few partitions.
>>>
>>> I created a linux root partition of 8GB, a home partition of 20GB, and a
>>> swap partition of 2GB.  I mapped those in the configuration, then I went on
>>> ahead and made a 140GB partition for windows, and two 4GB partitions for
>>> PFSense and NGinx.
>>>
>>> Once the system is installed, the standard LVM tools can be used,
>>> lvcreate, lvresize, lvremove, lv/vg/pvdisplay commands, etc...
>>>
>>> My Disk IO is not optimal, which might be because I run four systems off
>>> the same drive at the same time, so if you intend to use many systems you
>>> may want to split the drives onto multiple physical disks.  However, I have
>>> reason to believe my IO problems are a Xen bug, I just haven't had time to
>>> test/prove it.
>>>
>>> **********
>>>
>>> When you pass a LV to an HVM it treats it like a physical disk, and it
>>> will create a partition table, MBR code, and partitions inside the LV
>>> (partitions within partitions).
>>>
>>> When I get some free time I want to write up a pretty verbose guide on
>>> LVM specifically for Xen, there are plenty of things I've learned about
>>> accessing the partitions too.
>>>
>>> Some things I learned recently with Xen, IDE drives (hdX) only allow four
>>> passed devices, so if you have more than 3 storage partitions you will want
>>> to use SCSI (sdX) for them, but SCSI drives are not bootable.  Hence my
>>> configuration has "hda" for the boot drive (lv partition), and sdX for all
>>> storage drives (lv partitons) (X = alphabetical increment, a, b, c, d, etc).
>>>
>>> **********
>>>
>>> Hope that helps a bit, let me know if you have any other questions or if
>>> that didn't answer them correct.
>>>
>>> ~Casey
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, May 12, 2012 at 1:10 PM, Andrew Bobulsky <rulerof@xxxxxxxxx>
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hello Casey,
>>>>
>>>> Quick question!
>>>>
>>>> What's the config file entry for the LVM-type setup you have going on
>>>> for the guest disk look like?  Might you be able to point me to a
>>>> guide that'll show me how to set up a disk like that?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks!
>>>>
>>>> -Andrew Bobulsky
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, May 11, 2012 at 6:51 PM, Casey DeLorme <cdelorme@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> > Hello Peter,
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > Question #1: Performance
>>>> >
>>>> > With x86 Virtualization hardware such as CPU's and Memory are mapped
>>>> > not
>>>> > layered, there should be almost no difference in speeds from running
>>>> > natively.
>>>> >
>>>> > I am running Windows 7 HVM with an ATI Radeon 6870.  My system has
>>>> > 12GB of
>>>> > RAM, and a Core i7 2600.  I gave Windows 4 vcores and 6GB of memory,
>>>> > Windows
>>>> > Experience index gives me 7.5 for CPU and 7.6 for RAM.  With VGA
>>>> > Passthrough
>>>> > I have 7.8 for both graphics scores.  I am running all my systems on
>>>> > LVM
>>>> > partitions on an OCZ Vertex 3 Drive, without PV Drivers windows scored
>>>> > 6.2
>>>> > for HDD speeds, with PV drivers it jumped to 7.8.
>>>> >
>>>> > Scores aside, performance with CPU/RAM is excellent, I am hoping to
>>>> > create a
>>>> > demo video of my system when I get some time (busy with college).
>>>> >
>>>> > My biggest concern right now is Disk IO ranges from excellent to
>>>> > abysmal,
>>>> > but I have a feeling the displayed values and actual speeds might be
>>>> > different.  I'll put putting together an extensive test with this
>>>> > later, but
>>>> > let's just say IO speeds vary (even with PV drivers).  The Disk IO
>>>> > does not
>>>> > appear to have any affect on games from my experience, so it may only
>>>> > be
>>>> > write speeds.  I have not run any disk benchmarks.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > Question #2: GPU Assignment
>>>> >
>>>> > I have no idea how Dual GPU cards work, so I can't really answer this
>>>> > question.
>>>> >
>>>> > I can advise you to be on the lookout for motherboards with NF200
>>>> > chipsets
>>>> > or strange PCI Switches, I bought an ASRock Extreme7 Gen3, great
>>>> > bought but
>>>> > NF200 is completely incompatible with VT-d, ended up with only one
>>>> > PCIe slot
>>>> > to pass.  I can recommend the ASRock Extreme4 Gen3, got it right now,
>>>> > if I
>>>> > had enough money to buy a bigger PSU and a second GPU I would be doing
>>>> > what
>>>> > you are planning to.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > Question #3:  Configuration
>>>> >
>>>> > Two approaches to device connection, USB Passthrough and PCI
>>>> > Passthrough.  I
>>>> > haven't tried USB Passthrough, but I have a feeling it wouldn't work
>>>> > with
>>>> > complex devices that require OS drives, such as BlueTooth receivers or
>>>> > an
>>>> > XBox 360 Wireless adapter.
>>>> >
>>>> > I took the second approach of passing the USB Controller, but this
>>>> > will vary
>>>> > by hardware.  The ASRock Extreme4 Gen3 has four USB PCI Controllers, I
>>>> > don't
>>>> > have any idea how you would check this stuff from their manuals, I
>>>> > found out
>>>> > when I ran "lspci" from Linux Dom0.
>>>> >
>>>> > I had no luck with USB 3.0, many devices weren't functional when
>>>> > connected
>>>> > to it, so I left my four USB 3.0 ports to my Dom0, and passed all my
>>>> > USB 2.0
>>>> > ports.
>>>> >
>>>> > Again hardware specific, one of the bus had 4 ports, the other had
>>>> > only two,
>>>> > I bought a 4 port USB PCI plate and attached the additional USB pins
>>>> > from
>>>> > the board to turn the 2-port into a 6-port controller.
>>>> >
>>>> > I use a ton of USB devices on my Windows system, Disk IO blows, but
>>>> > everything else functions great.  With PCI Passed USB I am able to use
>>>> > an
>>>> > XBox 360 Wireless Adapter, 2 Wireless USB Keyboards in different areas
>>>> > of
>>>> > the room, a Hauppauge HD PVR, A logitech C910 HD Webcam, and a
>>>> > Logitech
>>>> > Wireless Mouse.  I had BlueTooth but I got rid of it, the device
>>>> > itself went
>>>> > bad and was causing my system to BlueScreen.
>>>> >
>>>> > When I tested USB 3.0, I got no video from my Happauge HD PVR or my
>>>> > Logitech
>>>> > C910 webcam, and various devices when connected failed to function
>>>> > right.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > Question #4:  Other?
>>>> >
>>>> > I am 100% certain you could get a system running 2 Windows 7 HVM's up
>>>> > for
>>>> > gaming, but you may need to daisy chain some USB devices if you want
>>>> > more
>>>> > than just a keyboard and mouse for each.
>>>> >
>>>> > Also, if you are not confident in your ability to work with *nix, I
>>>> > wouldn't
>>>> > advise it.  I had spent two years tinkering with Web Servers in
>>>> > Debian, so I
>>>> > thought I would have an easy time of things.
>>>> >
>>>> > I tried it on a week off, ended up taking me 2 months to complete my
>>>> > setup.
>>>> >  The results are spectacular, but be prepared to spend many hours
>>>> > debugging
>>>> > unless you find a really good guide.
>>>> >
>>>> > I would recommend going for a Two Windows on One Rig, and duplicate
>>>> > that rig
>>>> > for a second machine, and I recommend that for two reasons.  If you
>>>> > are
>>>> > successful with the first machine, you can easily copy the process.
>>>> >  This
>>>> > will save you hours of attempting to get a whole four Gaming machines
>>>> > working on one system.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > As stated, I only run one gaming machine, but I do have two other
>>>> > HVM's
>>>> > running, one manages my households network and the other is a private
>>>> > web/file server.  So, performance wise Xen can do a lot.
>>>> >
>>>> > Best of luck,
>>>> >
>>>> > ~Casey
>>>> >
>>>> > On Fri, May 11, 2012 at 6:17 PM, Peter Vandendriessche
>>>> > <peter.vandendriessche@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Hi,
>>>> >>
>>>> >> I am new to Xen and I was wondering if the following construction
>>>> >> would be
>>>> >> feasible with the current Xen.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> I would like to put 2/3/4 new computers in my house, mainly for
>>>> >> gaming.
>>>> >> Instead of buying 2/3/4 different computers, I was thinking of
>>>> >> building one
>>>> >> computer with a 4/6/8-core CPU, 2/3/4 GPUs, 2/3/4 small SSDs, and
>>>> >> attach
>>>> >> 2/3/4 monitors to it, 2/3/4 keyboards and 2/3/4 mouses, and run VGA
>>>> >> passthrough. This would save me money on hardware, and it would also
>>>> >> save
>>>> >> quite some space on the desk where I wanted to put them.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> If this is possible, I have a few additional questions about this:
>>>> >>
>>>> >> 1) Would the speed on each virtual machine be effectively that of a
>>>> >> 2-core
>>>> >> CPU with 1 GPU? What about memory speed/latency?
>>>> >> 2) Is it possible to split dual GPUs, e.g. drive 4 OSes with 2x
>>>> >> Radeon HD
>>>> >> 6990 (=4 GPUs in 2 PCI-e slots)?
>>>> >> 3) How should one configure the machine such that each OS receives
>>>> >> only
>>>> >> the input from its own keyboard/mouse?
>>>> >> 4) Any other problems or concerns that you can think of?
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Thanks in advance,
>>>> >> Peter
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
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>>>> >> Xen-users@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> >> http://lists.xen.org/xen-users
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
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>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
>

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