Re: [Xen-devel] [v3,11/41] mips: reuse asm-generic/barrier.h

["Paul E. McKenney" <paulmck@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

On Wed, Jan 27, 2016 at 12:52:07AM +0800, Boqun Feng wrote:
> Hi Paul,
> 
> On Mon, Jan 18, 2016 at 07:46:29AM -0800, Paul E. McKenney wrote:
> > On Mon, Jan 18, 2016 at 04:19:29PM +0800, Herbert Xu wrote:
> > > Paul E. McKenney <paulmck@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > You could use SYNC_ACQUIRE() to implement read_barrier_depends() and
> > > > smp_read_barrier_depends(), but SYNC_RMB probably does not suffice.
> > > > The reason for this is that smp_read_barrier_depends() must order the
> > > > pointer load against any subsequent read or write through a dereference
> > > > of that pointer.  For example:
> > > > 
> > > >        p = READ_ONCE(gp);
> > > >        smp_rmb();
> > > >        r1 = p->a; /* ordered by smp_rmb(). */
> > > >        p->b = 42; /* NOT ordered by smp_rmb(), BUG!!! */
> > > >        r2 = x; /* ordered by smp_rmb(), but doesn't need to be. */
> > > > 
> > > > In contrast:
> > > > 
> > > >        p = READ_ONCE(gp);
> > > >        smp_read_barrier_depends();
> > > >        r1 = p->a; /* ordered by smp_read_barrier_depends(). */
> > > >        p->b = 42; /* ordered by smp_read_barrier_depends(). */
> > > >        r2 = x; /* not ordered by smp_read_barrier_depends(), which is 
> > > > OK. */
> > > > 
> > > > Again, if your hardware maintains local ordering for address
> > > > and data dependencies, you can have read_barrier_depends() and
> > > > smp_read_barrier_depends() be no-ops like they are for most
> > > > architectures.
> > > > 
> > > > Does that help?
> > > 
> > > This is crazy! smp_rmb started out being strictly stronger than
> > > smp_read_barrier_depends, when did this stop being the case?
> > 
> > Hello, Herbert!
> > 
> > It is true that most Linux kernel code relies only on the read-read
> > properties of dependencies, but the read-write properties are useful.
> > Admittedly relatively rarely, but useful.
> > 
> > The better comparison for smp_read_barrier_depends(), especially in
> > its rcu_dereference*() form, is smp_load_acquire().
> 
> Confused..
> 
> I recall that last time you and Linus came into a conclusion that even
> on Alpha, a barrier for read->write with data dependency is unnecessary:
> 
> http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.kernel/2077661
> 
> And in an earlier mail of that thread, Linus made his point that
> smp_read_barrier_depends() should only be used to order read->read.

Those examples involved read-to-write with conditionals, as in:

        if (READ_ONCE(a))
                WRITE_ONCE(b, 1);

Without the "if", no ordering is guaranteed on weakly ordered CPUs.
(The volatile accesses keep ordering within the compiler for once...

> So right now, are we going to extend the semantics of
> smp_read_barrier_depends()? Can we just make smp_read_barrier_depends()
> still only work for read->read, and assume all the architectures won't
> reorder read->write with data dependency, so that the code above having
> a smp_rmb() also works?

The semantics of smp_read_barrier_depends() has been both read-to-write
and read-to-read for some time now, this patch just catches the
documentation up with reality.

                                                        Thanx, Paul


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