RE: [Xen-users] Debian Repository

["Ian Tobin" <itobin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Hi,

So im a little confused again :)

So we have our  Dom0 which we need running a xenified kernel from xen.org 
(2.6.18) or a modified one from fedora.  I was under the impression that with 
pv_ops we no longer need the xenified kernel or is this the future plan?

If so what is the purpose of having a pv_ops domU? Is it just so we don't have 
to find a xenified kernel? It seems to me there isn't much point if we still 
need the xenified dom0 kernel.

Hope you understand.

Thanks

Ian

-----Original Message-----
From: Pasi Kärkkäinen [mailto:pasik@xxxxxx] 
Sent: 13 January 2010 17:58
To: Ian Tobin
Cc: xen-users@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [Xen-users] Debian Repository

On Wed, Jan 13, 2010 at 05:55:15PM +0000, Ian Tobin wrote:
> Can you compie the kernel from kernel.org and also compile xen from xen.org 
>  and it work under pv op?
> 

kernel from kernel.org will work as a Xen PV guest (=domU) kernel only.

If you need to compile a kernel that works as Xen dom0 kernel, then you
need another kernel tree or some patches, see here:
http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenDom0Kernels

-- Pasi

> Sent from my iPod
> 
> On 13 Jan 2010, at 11:46, Pasi Kärkkäinen <pasik@xxxxxx> wrote:
> 
> >On Wed, Jan 13, 2010 at 11:37:12AM -0000, Ian Tobin wrote:
> >>Right im with you.
> >>
> >>I take it the XENpatches are better though because they are not so  
> >>generic and have better performance
> >>
> >
> >At the moment the original "Xenlinux" patches, or the various
> >forward-ports of them (by Novel/OpenSUSE), might be faster than  
> >pv_ops.
> >
> >Also pv_ops dom0 patches are still lacking some features.. but
> >development is happening all the time, so that will get fixed in the
> >near future.
> >
> >In the future pv_ops (domU and dom0) is meant to be the one and only  
> >correct solution.
> >
> >-- Pasi
> >
> >>Ian
> >>
> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>From: Pasi Kärkkäinen [mailto:pasik@xxxxxx]
> >>Sent: 13 January 2010 11:34
> >>To: Ian Tobin
> >>Cc: xen-users@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>Subject: Re: [Xen-users] Debian Repository
> >>
> >>On Wed, Jan 13, 2010 at 11:30:24AM -0000, Ian Tobin wrote:
> >>>Ok i think i understand all that :)
> >>>
> >>>So if  compiled the the latest kernel enabling the xen options i  
> >>>can run a DomU on the pv_ops framework?
> >>>
> >>
> >>Yes, the upstream Linux kernel can be used as Xen PV domU kernel.
> >>
> >>Distributions like Fedora 10, Fedora 11, Fedora 12 contain pv_ops  
> >>based
> >>Xen PV domU kernels out-of-the-box.
> >>
> >>pv_ops makes it possible to run the exact same kernel binary on both
> >>baremetal (without Xen) and on Xen PV domU/guest!
> >>
> >>-- Pasi
> >>
> >>>Ian
> >>>
> >>>-----Original Message-----
> >>>From: Pasi Kärkkäinen [mailto:pasik@xxxxxx]
> >>>Sent: 13 January 2010 11:10
> >>>To: Ian Tobin
> >>>Cc: xen-users@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>Subject: Re: [Xen-users] Debian Repository
> >>>
> >>>On Wed, Jan 13, 2010 at 10:56:04AM -0000, Ian Tobin wrote:
> >>>>Sorry im a bit confused, why have they added DomU support but no  
> >>>>Dom0 support?
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>It's a long story. The 'original' Xenlinux patches (around Linux  
> >>>2.6.18 timeframe,
> >>>including dom0 support) were submitted for inclusion in upstream  
> >>>Linux,
> >>>but the patches were considered too intrusive, ie. they modified too
> >>>much non-Xen generic x86 code, so the patches were not accepted  
> >>>into Linux.
> >>>
> >>>That's when Xensource, VMware etc started working on a general
> >>>paravirtualization framework for Linux. This was called pv_ops  
> >>>(paravirt_ops).
> >>>It took a long time to get the generic pv_ops framework in shape  
> >>>and merged in Linux,
> >>>and then after that Xen pv_ops domU support was merged in mainline  
> >>>Linux.
> >>>
> >>>See here for history/changelog: 
> >>>http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenParavirtOps
> >>>
> >>>Today upstream/mainline Linux contains Xen domU support using the  
> >>>pv_ops framework.
> >>>
> >>>>I was under the impression that pv_ops replaces Dom0 and you can  
> >>>>run domU on pv_ops?
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>Jeremy (from Citrix/Xensource) is working on adding dom0 support to
> >>>Linux pv_ops, so that mainline Linux can function as a dom0 kernel.
> >>>
> >>>Currently pv_ops dom0 patches are in Jeremy's git tree, and not yet
> >>>accepted into upstream Linux. Jeremy is working hard on this.
> >>>
> >>>See XenParavirtOps wiki page for status updates.
> >>>
> >>>>That saying do i need a Dom0 if using pv_ops ?
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>Uhm.. you always need dom0 to manage and run Xen.
> >>>Dom0 kernel can be based on pv_ops, or the old 'xenlinux' patches.
> >>>
> >>>Hopefully that clears it up.
> >>>
> >>>-- Pasi
> >>>
> >>>>Ian
> >>>>
> >>>>-----Original Message-----
> >>>>From: Pasi Kärkkäinen [mailto:pasik@xxxxxx]
> >>>>Sent: 13 January 2010 09:59
> >>>>To: Ian Tobin
> >>>>Cc: xen-users@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>>Subject: Re: [Xen-users] Debian Repository
> >>>>
> >>>>On Wed, Jan 13, 2010 at 09:30:52AM -0000, Ian Tobin wrote:
> >>>>>Just another quick one, if i downloaded the latest kernel from 
> >>>>>kernel.org and compiled it would this have support for the latest XEN 
> >>>>>release?
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>vanilla kernel from kernel.org has Xen domU (guest) support  
> >>>>included,
> >>>>using the Linux pv_ops framework.
> >>>>
> >>>>Dom0 support is not yet included in kernel.org kernels.
> >>>>
> >>>>List of various dom0 capable kernels and patches here:
> >>>>http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenDom0Kernels
> >>>>
> >>>>-- Pasi
> >>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>-----Original Message-----
> >>>>>From: Pasi Kärkkäinen [mailto:pasik@xxxxxx]
> >>>>>Sent: 13 January 2010 09:23
> >>>>>To: Ian Tobin
> >>>>>Cc: xen-users@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>>>Subject: Re: [Xen-users] Debian Repository
> >>>>>
> >>>>>On Wed, Jan 13, 2010 at 09:07:17AM -0000, Ian Tobin wrote:
> >>>>>>If Debian is not going to be supported for much longer what  
> >>>>>>would the next best OS be?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>If you read the posts, they're actively working on fixing the  
> >>>>>packages.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>-- Pasi
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>-----Original Message-----
> >>>>>>From: Pasi Kärkkäinen [mailto:pasik@xxxxxx]
> >>>>>>Sent: 12 January 2010 14:20
> >>>>>>To: Ian Tobin
> >>>>>>Cc: xen-users@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>>>>Subject: Re: [Xen-users] Debian Repository
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>On Tue, Jan 12, 2010 at 04:16:31PM +0200, Pasi Kärkkäinen 
> >>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>On Tue, Jan 12, 2010 at 12:44:32PM -0000, Ian Tobin wrote:
> >>>>>>>>  Hi,
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>  Im trying to install Netware and Windows 2008 server but im  
> >>>>>>>>having
> >>>>>>>>  problems with it reading the ISO.  Im guessing this is  
> >>>>>>>>because im running
> >>>>>>>>  version 3.2.1 debian packages so i want to upgrade to  
> >>>>>>>>unstable and use the
> >>>>>>>>  3.4 deb packages.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>  My problem is that there isn't a kernel package so when  
> >>>>>>>>booting you cant
> >>>>>>>>  boot into xenified kernel mode.  If i try and use a kernel  
> >>>>>>>>from the stable
> >>>>>>>>  tree it messes things up.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>  How is everyone else running the 3.4 packages? Ive read  
> >>>>>>>>about pv_ops but i
> >>>>>>>>  don't know how to install or use it.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>  Any ideas?
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>I think the Debian Xen 3.4.2 debs are also missing qemu-dm  
> >>>>>>>required
> >>>>>>>for Xen HVM guests.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>Debian developers are working on adding qemu-dm back to the  
> >>>>>>>packages
> >>>>>>>(it was removed because the Debian Xen maintainer didn't want  
> >>>>>>>to maintain
> >>>>>>>it, he thought managing/patching Qemu was too much work for  
> >>>>>>>him).
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>There was discussion about this on xen-devel and on debian pkg- 
> >>>>>>>xen
> >>>>>>>mailinglists:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>http://lists.xensource.com/archives/html/xen-devel/2009-12/msg00716.html
> >>>>>>>and
> >>>>>>>http://blog.xen.org/index.php/2009/12/15/support-to-be-removed-from-debian-squeeze-call-for-volunteers/
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>You could always compile your own Xen dom0 kernel, there are  
> >>>>>>>many
> >>>>>>>options for that:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenDom0Kernels
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>At the moment Linux 2.6.31.9 with OpenSUSE 2.6.31-10 Xen  
> >>>>>>patches might
> >>>>>>be a good option for you as a dom0 kernel.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>-- Pasi
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >



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