Re: [Xen-users] SPEC VIRT

[Tim Post <tim.post@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

On Thu, 2006-11-02 at 11:44 -0800, Luke Crawford wrote:
> On Fri, 3 Nov 2006, Tim Post wrote:
> 
> > The fact remains that they are renting them because they are advertised
> > as effortless and easy and the majority just doesn't know any better.
> 
> This is where they are getting "ripped off" - not in getting shorted on 
> resources.

A million opinions could be interjected here. But the fact remains if
you buy a VM and get tossed on a celeron 2.4 with one nic / bridge and
40 other high traffic sites, you aren't getting what you pay for. 

Not saying you do that, but many do. Even for technically adept people,
sometimes its hard to see what you're actually getting.


> I'm #12 for "xen hosting" right now... I'm fairly careful to go for the 
> more proficent customers.  Getting people that are not unix people 
> results in headaches that are unprofitable for all involved:
> 
> "hosting services for the technically adept. At ----, we don't assume 
> you're stupid."
> 

I work for companies who have spent millions in market research (and
marketing each year). I won't name them, but I will say they are the top
i-net interactive advertisers. 

I like your business  model and I'm glad you found a niche. The real
untapped market share is (broadly) non technical or Non Linux inclined. 

>  VPS providers are simply not equiped to 
> serve non-technical customers.  (I soppose you could do it if you had, 
> say, a 20:1 customer:SysAdmin ratio, but that would get expensive fast.)
> 

I oversee a staff of approximately 50 here in Manila. "Managed Services"
is a popular program / package, especially as a value add to VPS
servers.

Competent admins cost about $8 an hour here.. its very cost effective
for companies with enough capital to launch "top heavy" to do it.

> (I should probably take out the bit about being scaleable;  until I solve 
> my power problem, or until my current customers start jumping ship due to 
> my stupid mistakes,  I'm not scaling shit.)
> 

I don't think anyone is going to notice. If you just answer tickets
timely and be nice to people you'll keep your clients. I'm seeing some
real horror stories. 

Sounds like you treat people like customers, not consumers .. you'll
continue to do well :)

> Climbing the google results ladder is not particularly difficult;  the 
> google algorythem is rather good- if you can get yourself linked from good 
> sites, and if your page is not too cluttered, you rise to the top fairly 
> quickly.  I've put almost zero effort into SEO, aside from keeping my 
> markup sparse and clean, and making my <H1> tags relivant to the subject 
> matter at hand.

Yep. But that's another topic for another list.

> 
> > I agree and like I said, if your going to drive a car you should know
> > how to not get ripped off by a mechanic. Same goes with a hosting
> > provider .. but sadly its just not the case.
> 
> I think this is more like "If you don't want to learn how to drive, you 
> should take a a taxi.  If you can't afford a taxi, take the train or the 
> bus, or just walk."  Basic UNIX is something that just about 
> everyone could learn if they want to put in the effort.  (Like driving, 
> only a few will become experts, but most people can become adaquate.)
> 

The point I'm making is people are programmed to see a pretty website as
a source of authority and believe what they read. You aren't going to be
able to change that. If xyz company with lots of fake testimonials says
"You don't need any Linux knowledge" , 60% of the sites visitors will
believe that, especially if the risk involved is only 15 - 20 bucks a
month for a VPS.

What was the last percentage count of people who actually fall for
phishing scams? I don't remember, but I remember it was alarmingly high.

> Not knowing how to change the oil is fine, as long as you are willing to 
> put in the effort and expence to find a compitent mechanic;  but if you 
> don't know how to drive you are a danger to yourself and others.

I think we're taking the metaphor into a parallel dimension now. 

> 
> There are many service providers that create products specifically for 
> the "I don't want to be technical" market; most of them are cheaper than a 
> VPS, as well.   customers without technical interests ought to be pushed 
> in the direction of those companies.
> 

You can lead a horse to water .. in the end its the prettiest site that
converts, when dealing with one who doesn't know any better. 

Interesting conversation and debate, but is in danger of being off topic
for the list now :)

Best,
-Tim



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