Re: [Xen-users] VT hardware and gaming / 3d Accelerated graphics

[Mogens Valentin <mogensv@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Kip Macy wrote:
> That is not far-fetched. However, driver-domains are not supported in 
> 3.0 and I don't believe that they are considered a priority. In 
> addition, no one is currently working on para-virtualized graphics.
AFAICT, this won't really be feasible until quite a lot more of the 
whole HW platform gets virtualized (which is being talked upon).
This topic has been touched before, and while the development effords 
are wisely geared towards Xen as a server thingy, I feel full graphics 
capabilities would be a must-have for serious workstation uses.
There's a difference between being able to do 3D video for WS use, and 
being able to play games.
> This will likely be possible at some point, but you'll have to wait a while.
Possibly a -good- while. Nvidia is somewhat interested, at least I 
managed to get them to open an RFE for Xen-aware drivers, but it's 
scheduled as a workunit to be acted upon when deemed relevant.
IOW, they won't do anything  until they see a market and/or are being 
pressurized to do something about it, meaning 'someone', i.e. the lot of 
us here, should join nvnews.net and start talking to Nvidia about this, 
send Nvidia videodriver debugs to the forum, etc.
I guess a severe obstackle will be that Nvidia is a closed-source bizz, 
while Xen is OSS, so how to get the two parts working together?
Well.. OSS people are usually very reluctant to accept non-OSS code, 
while video manufacturers is 99.7% unlikely to open their code.
The other day I was thinking along those lines:
The Nvidia driver consists of two parts, a binary module interfacing to 
the video HW and X, and a more-or-less OSS kernel module.
If Nvidia could be persuaded to place as much functionality as possible 
(while adhering to their NDA's) in a fully OSS kernelmodule, Xen 
developers might have a chance working on getting it integrated, while 
at the same time being able to help Nvidia get the closed HW/X module to 
work. I advised Nvidia join Xen-devel; haven't seen them there as yet..

> On 12/26/05, Art Arica3D <nikicart@xxxxxxxxx 
> <mailto:nikicart@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
>     Let's assume that you really wanted to run Xen but still allow "one
>     primary desktop OS" to run games.
>
>     How close is Xen to supporting something where you have:
>       1.  A simple PCI VGA video card installed as a "console card" that
>     the sytem uses and virtualizes.  (On system sytsems like Intel 815
>     chipset motherboard, the onboard would be the VGA).
>       2.  A PCI Express / AGP video card with full 3D capabiity that you
>     could allow to appear only to the one domU.  You would install native
>     OS drivers for this card...
>
>     In other words... could Xen work off a second video card and provide
>     direct hardware access to the 3D card s that you used standard
>     drivers, etc.
>
>     Is this far fetched + very complicated?
>
>       Stephen Gutknecht
>
>
>
>
>     reply to:
>     ====================
>     Date: Mon, 26 Dec 2005 11:34:48 -0600
>     From: Anthony Liguori <aliguori@xxxxxxxxxx <mailto:aliguori@xxxxxxxxxx>>
>     Subject: Re: [Xen-users] Intel shipping hardware VM CPU's      
>     already...
>            morecomingDecember 27 2005 65nm
>     To: Daniel Goertzen <daniel.goertzen@xxxxxxxxxxx
>     <mailto:daniel.goertzen@xxxxxxxxxxx>>
>     Cc: xen-users@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:xen-users@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>     Message-ID: <43B029B8.8010708@xxxxxxxxxx
>     <mailto:43B029B8.8010708@xxxxxxxxxx>>
>     Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
>     Daniel Goertzen wrote:
>
>      >Yes, servers are the primary focus for xen, but it is very
>     interesting for
>      >the home enthusiast too.  For example, you could build an ultra quiet
>      >diskless Windows system using a linux dom0 that provides a network
>     block
>      >device to a Windows domU.  BTW, I don't see anything extra that a
>      >desktop/gaming machine would need out of xen that isn't needed for
>     server
>      >use.  All the things I listed were already in roadmaps and xen
>      >presentations.
>      >
>      >
>     3d acceleration virtualization.
>
>     The emulated VGA device provides no acceleration virtualization at all
>     so games are going to run terribly slowly.  Jacob Hansen has been doing
>     some cool gl 3d paravirtualization but that wouldn't help for running
>     games in Windows.
>
>     FWIW, the latest versions of VMware provide 3d acceleration
>     virtualization for Windows guests (even under a Linux host).
>
>     Regards,
>
>     Anthony Liguori
>
>      >Cheers,
>      >Dan.

--
Kind regards,
Mogens Valentin


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