Re: [Xen-devel] domain creation vs querying free memory (xend and xl)

[Tim Deegan <tim@xxxxxxx>]

At 14:56 -0700 on 02 Oct (1349189817), Dan Magenheimer wrote:
> > AIUI xapi uses the domains' maximum allocations, centrally controlled,
> > to place an upper bound on the amount of guest memory that can be in
> > use.  Within those limits there can be ballooning activity.  But TBH I
> > don't know the details.
> 
> Yes, that's the same as saying there is no memory-overcommit.

I'd say there is - but it's all done by ballooning, and it's centrally
enforced by lowering each domain's maxmem to its balloon target, so a
badly behaved guest can't balloon up and confuse things. 

> The original problem occurs only if there are multiple threads
> of execution that can be simultaneously asking the hypervisor
> to allocate memory without the knowledge of a single centralized
> "controller".

Absolutely.

> Tmem argues that doing "memory capacity transfers" at a page granularity
> can only be done efficiently in the hypervisor.  This is true for
> page-sharing when it breaks a "share" also... it can't go ask the
> toolstack to approve allocation of a new page every time a write to a shared
> page occurs.
> 
> Does that make sense?

Yes.  The page-sharing version can be handled by having a pool of
dedicated memory for breaking shares, and the toolstack asynchronously
replenish that, rather than allowing CoW to use up all memory in the
system.

> (rough proposed design re-attached below)

Thanks for that.  It describes a sensible-looking hypervisor interface,
but my question was really: what should xl do, in the presence of
ballooning, sharing, paging and tmem, to
 - decide whether a VM can be started at all;
 - control those four systems to shuffle memory around; and
 - resolve races sensibly to avoid small VMs deferring large ones.
(AIUI, xl already has some logic to handle the case of balloon-to-fit.)

The second of those three is the interesting one.  It seems to me that
if the tools can't force all other actors to give up memory (and not
immediately take it back) then they can't guarantee to be able to start
a new VM, even with the new reservation hypercalls.

Cheers,

Tim.

> > From: Dan Magenheimer
> > Sent: Monday, October 01, 2012 2:04 PM
> >    :
> >    :
> > Back to design brainstorming:
> > 
> > The way I am thinking about it, the tools need to be involved
> > to the extent that they would need to communicate to the
> > hypervisor the following facts (probably via new hypercall):
> > 
> > X1) I am launching a domain X and it is eventually going to
> >    consume up to a maximum of N MB.  Please tell me if
> >    there is sufficient RAM available AND, if so, reserve
> >    it until I tell you I am done. ("AND" implies transactional
> >    semantics)
> > X2) The launch of X is complete and I will not be requesting
> >    the allocation of any more RAM for it.  Please release
> >    the reservation, whether or not I've requested a total
> >    of N MB.
> > 
> > The calls may be nested or partially ordered, i.e.
> >    X1...Y1...Y2...X2
> >    X1...Y1...X2...Y2
> > and the hypervisor must be able to deal with this.
> > 
> > Then there would need to be two "versions" of "xm/xl free".
> > We can quibble about which should be the default, but
> > they would be:
> > 
> > - "xl --reserved free" asks the hypervisor how much RAM
> >    is available taking into account reservations
> > - "xm --raw free" asks the hypervisor for the instantaneous
> >    amount of RAM unallocated, not counting reservations
> > 
> > When the tools are not launching a domain (that is there
> > has been a matching X2 for all X1), the results of the
> > above "free" queries are always identical.
> > 
> > So, IanJ, does this match up with the design you were thinking
> > about?
> > 
> > Thanks,
> > Dan
> > 
> > [1] I think the core culprits are (a) the hypervisor accounts for
> > memory allocation of pages strictly on a first-come-first-served
> > basis and (b) the tools don't have any form of need-this-much-memory
> > "transaction" model

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